Sisters fellowship with brother Minoru in Malaga (Q&A)

The following is a transcript of the sisters’ question and response time on Saturday evening at the Malaga conference. I’m posting it here because the fellowship is so helpful and practical for our Christian living, both for sisters, and for brothers to read. I have been as faithful as I can to the sharing and the heart in which brother Minoru shared, however any mistakes in the transcribing below are my own. I will be making a separate post soon with my enjoyment from the actual conference.

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Minoru Chen, 15 December 2018
Malaga, Spain

I have a lot of burden for sisters, and you should realise that in the church life the sisters role and function is more important than the brothers. I don’t say this to make you feel good, but this is a fact. So wherever I go, I like to have some fellowship with the sisters. About a year ago, with some helpers, I put together 48 lessons for sisters, like a training course, how to be a proper sister on the church life for God’s economy. So far I have finished eight lessons of the 48. All these have been recorded and are available. They are there as a resource for you.

Recently in Irvine, where I am from, I have two lessons, which are not part of the 48 lessons, from two chapters in proverbs, regarding a worthy woman. Worthy means of value, a woman of value. So now there are fifty lessons.

I am not here trying to stir up some sisters movement, but I’m really burdened that the sisters in the Lord’s recovery need some training, to be the right kind of sisters, the proper sisters.

I have nothing planned here for sharing, so the time is open for questions.

1. How should a Christian woman dress?

I won’t spend too much time on this, not because it’s not important, but if we’re not careful, we can be distracted. The Bible touches this matter. In particular the apostle Paul, in 1 Timothy 2:9-10: Similarly, that women adorn themselves in proper clothing with modesty and sobriety, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, what befits women professing godly reverence, by good works.

Here you get a principle. Paul did not say how many inches or what colours, he only gave certain principles. In the church life we don’t have regulations. If you go to the training there are some regulations, what you should wear. But in the church life there are not regulations, but there are principles. You have to go by these principles, and go by the peace inside you. You have to know the Lord and go by the inner peace and not by some outward rules.

Actually, this verse implies that women should adorn themselves. Don’t have the idea that women should be disheveled or sloppy. The word is “adorn”. The church is being adorned. Of course, that adornment is spiritual, and eventually that adornment is Christ. We are being adorned with Christ. So sisters, you shouldn’t be sloppy, you should adorn yourselves, but in a proper way. In the footnotes in the recovery version, “proper” here means something that is fitting (suitable) to a sisters’ nature and to a saint of God. And the word “clothing” here implies not only a physical clothing, but deportment, demeanor. You could wear a long dress, but if your demeanor is not proper then it is ugly and the long dress means nothing. It could be the way the sister laughs, approaches you, or conducts themselves, but it is not how a saint should be.

You asked about clothing, but I answered about the person. It’s not just about inches and centimeters.

“Modesty”, that means not too much. Not so crazy, expensive, or extreme. Don’t ask me what is modest; only you know what is modest. That doesn’t mean you have to dress like the 19th century. The literal meaning of modesty in English is “shamefastness”, a sense of shame, an honorable shame. It’s something about honour. When people see you or contact you, they would feel it is something esteemed and honourable, not low class. This means sisters should not be so forward, not so in-your-face, engaging without a line, aggressive, or over-bold. I’m not saying sisters should not be bold, but they should not be over-bold. You know what it is, because you were created that way, with the feminine nature. The world is telling you to forget the feminine nature. So again, this should be coming from something within. The clothing you wear is an expression of you.

The verses go on, don’t braid your hair, with gold, pearls. These are not regulations. This is a matter of principle. Here, the point is not something overly showy, ostentatious, to display how rich or different you are, to make you stand out. That’s not being modest, that’s bringing attention to yourself. But sobriety, to be sober, have a sober mind, some self-restraint, some restriction. Conduct yourself soberly, with a clear mind, and discreetly, with discernment, not careless. Clothe yourselves with virtues, these are high, feminine virtues. Shamefastness and a honourable restraint in your demeanor.

2. In light of the fellowship in this conference on the jubilee, how might we shepherd saints who have become disappointed in their experience of the Lord?

This is a general question, not particularly for sisters, so let’s put it aside for now.

3. I recently read the booklet, The Loving Mothers in the Church Life, can you elaborate more on this?

I don’t have a lot of time, but glad you brought up this booklet. In the 1979s, Witness Lee shared a number of related messages at that time, including The Loving Mothers in the Church Life, and the other is The Serving Sisters in the Church Life. I’d say, these should be mandatory reading for every sister. You should not borrow it, but buy your own. I read these booklets many times, and I’m not even a sister. After I read it, it inspired me so much that I said, Lord, why did You not make me a sister? I’m not joking. Because my view of being a sister got so uplifted. That is part of the reason I have so much burden for sisters, because of these two booklets.

The Loving Mothers in the Church Life is based on the account in John when the Lord spoke to John and Mary, and there was a transfer of life. In the church life, such transfers of life should happen all the time, so that many, many sisters, would become loving mothers of many saints. Today, the churches are short of mothers, so many saints are motherless. Paul in Romans 16 referred to a certain sister as his mother. She was not his physical mother, but Paul considered her to be his mother. So Witness Lee charged the sisters to look for young saints, college students, young people, to become their mothers. Paul said he was a father to many. You have ten thousand teachers, but you don’t have many fathers; in the gospel, I have begotten you. In the church life, everything is about life, it’s about family. In a church you need spiritual fathers and mothers. How the church will fare depends on how many spiritual mums and dads there are. Many young people in the church life need spiritual parents. This is healthy, this is normal. So we want to burden many sisters to be such mothers.

The other book, The Serving Sisters in the Church Life, is from Romans 16, and mentions Phoebe, who was so highly esteemed that she even became a kind of patroness to the saints, a kind of hostess to serve the saints, even in material things. Romans 16 is full of sisters, e.g. greet Mary who laboured much for you. They may serve in a hidden way, because they are sisters, not brothers, but Paul took time to greet them, because they are so crucial. Homework: get these booklets and read them five times, and pray over them. Nothing will transform you more than having someone under your care. Become this spiritually beautiful sister, pick up the young saints, and it will change you. You have peculiarities, well they will work on you. Read these booklets with other sisters, and practice them.

4. There are many sisters who have the need of marriage, how do we help them? Can we allow them to date with unbelievers?

Two huge questions (this and the next). I don’t have an answer. It seems to be a huge need in the recovery. I don’t know about in the Far East, but in the US, maybe here in Spain, there seem to be a shortage of men. Or a shortage of men who want to get married. They’re men, but they seem to be a bit weird. They’re men but they don’t want to get married, that’s wrong. Practicing celibacy, the apostle Paul says this is a teaching of demons.

The Lord knows, my wife and I are burdened. We keep our eyes open, we pray and look for the right one, but the problem over the years seems to be getting bigger. It’s a desperate situation. Many sisters are wonderful sisters. They may not be Miss Spain (Senorita Espana), they may not win the beauty pageant, but they are wonderful sisters.

Maybe brothers may be looking too much at the outside. When I was going to get married, there was no FaceTime, so I could not introduce anyone to my father face to face. But we spoke on the phone and he gave me some fatherly advice, don’t look at the outside, look at the inside. We today, have so many sisters, dear sisters, beautiful sisters, but [unmarried brothers] don’t see it. That’s a shame.

I have no answers, but those older saints who have a burden along this line, you should pray, and pray for a particular sister. And out of that prayer and burden, you might shepherd that sister. She needs someone to talk to, and some care, and we need someone to care for these sisters. And there might be the opportunity to ask her to consider a brother, or a brother to consider her. You might say this is matchmaking, but eventually, only God can matchmake. It is like Eliazer, Abraham’s servant. I wouldn’t call this a kind of ministry, like a “singles ministry”. But organically, in a family, there should be older saints who have this kind of care.

Now, be careful, because, sorry to say, women like to get into this kind of thing. All they talk about is this, and pretty soon it is gossip. This is a very serious thing. Who a sister marries affects their life, their spiritual life, their spiritual service. So in a way, it’s better if it’s a shepherding couple, because there is a brother involved.

Regarding going outside, because there’s no brother in the church, I don’t know what to say. This matter of marriage is a very human thing. There’s a human need to be married. I want to be careful, I don’t want to say, go to Tinder or eHarmony. I don’t want to open this door. But the question is, where are the brothers? I think we need some single brothers training: lesson 3 – go and get married! There are some wonderful messages from brother Lee about marriage. How to find a mate, how to be husband and wife. We are very spiritual about these things, but this is also a human matter. Of course, the best thing is for a brother and sister, with the same heart, to be married.

5, How to teach younger sisters to learn the lesson of obeying authority?

We need training. We need single sisters training. In these 48 lessons, they include lessons on authority and submission. There is one on the position of women in God’s creation. Today the world says it doesn’t matter how you are created, that if you feel in your heart you are a man, then you are a man. That’s terrible. I don’t have the time here, but young sisters need to know the truth, of this great matter of order and authority in the universe, and in God’s kingdom and the church. If you take away authority, there is nothing. Authority is central in God’s economy. So you and I need to know the truth, and live by this truth. I hope these lessons will help. These lessons outlines have been translated into Spanish! It’s very important. In society today, teachers, and even parents, don’t give the proper training in this way. It’s a lawless society. But there is a distinction between man and woman. This is God’s creation for the fulfilment of God’s purpose.

6. When there’s a brother in the church who doesn’t submit to Christ, how should the sister in the family be? (not necessarily a husband and wife relationship)

I would have to understand the case, because every case has details, and you cannot say, “do this” in a general way.

The principle is that the man is still the head, whether it is the case of a father or a husband, that’s just God’s order. When the “head” does not submit, then in reality he has lost the headship. How can a rebellious person be the head? The only way a man can fulfill the role of being the head is when he himself is submitting. No submission, no authority.

But then, in position, he is still the leading person. But I would say that as a sister you can still not join in the disobedience. That is not to say you don’t recognise his position, and in some senses that he is the head, but he has lost the reality. So you still take the position in the order of the Lord, but you cannot join in his disobedience.

David is cited by brother Watchman Nee regarding Saul trying to kill David. One time David found Saul in a cave and could have killed him. Another time he cut of just the edge of Saul’s clothing, and even with that he was repentant. At that time, Saul already lost the reality of the kingship and David already had it. Saul was in rebellion to Jehovah, but David still took the position of submission, so Watchman Nee made the point that David was one who knew authority and would not touch it in a light way. You don’t join in the rebellion, but you still respect God’s order, until God does something to change things.

7. What role should you play if your daughter got married and is not happy in her marriage?

This is even harder. I know exactly what you’re talking about, although I don’t mean your case. Today there are so many marriages with relational problems: young marriages, new marriages, even with children, with relationship problems. It’s hard to talk about it, and there are so many reasons it could be. Things of the past, dispositional problems, financial problems, etc. Things that happen in worldly marriages also happen in our marriages, we should not be so spiritual to think otherwise. There may be times we may need to tell someone, you should not get married. Not because we are God, but because we have cumulative experience, this will end in disaster. Some are not critical, but others are quite critical. Telling saints they should not get married is one of the hardest shepherding in the church life. And then if their already married? You can’t tell them to divorce. And you cannot wave a magic wand to make it go away. You have to pray, shepherd them, they need it on both sides. Sometimes you can only commit them to the Lord. I’m not pessimistic, but we need a lot of wisdom, a lot of deliberate prayer. Otherwise we are playing with people’s lives, saying some spiritual things and sending them away. Human begins are very complex, especially in their psychology, how they were raised up, the family life that they had, etc, all contributes to the way they are.

The standing of the church is on the scriptures and the church cannot say anything else. It says no divorce, so the church cannot say, divorce. I cannot say we should do A, B, and C, but instead pray, do our best to shepherd, and commit them to the Lord’s mercy.

I’m not promoting counseling and therapy, and in different societies, this means different things. But in a certain few cases, there might be need for some professional help.